“Have faith and stop criticising!”

Auroville Today: On returning to this job, you predicted that your second innings would be harder than your first one. Were you correct?

Mr. Bala Baskar: Yes, my prediction came true. My job has not been easy this time. But to expect a replay of the past is not logical. I have changed, and so have the Aurovilians. And perhaps your expectations of me have been too high. Someone told me jokingly that some people thought I could walk on water! 

What would you term your successes during this term of office?

The success is that I have survived these years! Otherwise, I don’t think there are any great successes.

What were the main challenges you encountered this time?

Generally, I don’t think things have been moving at the right pace and in the right direction, and I was not able to do much about that.

Has the situation in Auroville changed since your first term of office?

Yes. One dominant impression I have is that now more Aurovilians are concerned about looking after their own private space than about the larger community. I think about 30%  of the population here are doing very good work, and another 30% are just here for themselves. But I feel that the other 40% who were in the middle are now drifting towards the negative side, becoming more concerned with their own problems than with the welfare of the community. And there is much more internal politics now. 

You have interacted with all the major working groups in Auroville. What has been your experience?

In many cases, I felt they didn’t take positive action when required because they were afraid of what people would say if they did.  In the case of the land, I told them that they needed many more people in the group to look after the land, and that they needed to be better organized. However,  they didn’t agree. They seemed to think they were doing a wonderful job. 

Was the land situation particularly frustrating for you? Very little land has been acquired over recent years. 

Yes. Dr. Karan Singh observed last time we met that I seemed to have lost my enthusiasm about the land, and he was right. If one’s proposals about land management or exchange are ignored all the time, that is not encouraging. 

Take the case of the Swamy land, for example, for which the land group wanted to exchange some Auroville land.  I told the Auroville land groups that their approach was incorrect. They were asking Aurovilians to vacate land, but the whole thing was very vague because nobody had talked to the Swamy first to see what he wanted.  This is like building a house made of cards. So one part of this story is certain Aurovilians saying, “This is my house. I am not moving. You cannot exchange this land.” The stance taken by these people is very incorrect, and this is why Dr Karan Singh had to write that letter in which he said that people should not have the sense of private property in Auroville but should see what is best for the community. 

At the same time, I think that if you want to move somebody, you must first discuss a rehabilitation plan with them. Give them some land elsewhere, and arrange for them to be properly housed. Only then can you talk about exchanging the land where they are living at present. I had advised the land group about this. But the concerned land group has not followed this advice.

It is the same with the case of the man who has put a tea shop on land near Certitude.  I don’t think confrontation helps. Rather, I would give the owner some other land where he can run the tea shop profitably. However, the concerned group does not want to do that, perhaps because they are afraid somebody will criticize them if they do. They are watching their own backs, so nothing gets done. 

Why did the Foundation office not act in these situations rather than leaving these important decisions in the hands of a few people?

But this is the job of the community – the community has chosen to leave these matters in the hands of these people and then fails to exercise supervision and control over them! It is not up to the Secretary to decide these things because, in the long-term, this could be very damaging for Auroville. You have to understand that with the Foundation you are not dealing with individuals; you are dealing with a system, and the system can throw up bad as well as good people. Given the nature of this office, such powers in the hands of not so good officers may cause great harm, and while it is possible for the Residents Assembly to supervise and control the Working Groups constituted by them, it is not possible for it to supervise and control the Secretary. So it is best not to set precedents which I think are against the spirit of Auroville as well as the Foundation Act.

Over the past years, the Governing Board has created certain Auroville working groups – like the town planning group – which are accountable to them rather than to the community. Are you happy with this development?

I am not happy with this.  In fact, I obtained a legal opinion against this, and I approached the Governing Board with it. But I was told the Board had acted upon the advice of the previous Secretary, and they wanted to give it time to see how it worked. In reality, however, the community has always chosen the people who will be on these groups, not the Governing Board.  However, the Governing Board has chosen the Advisory Group to L’Avenir, and this is their privilege. 

You are reported to have said that you have been part of the Indian bureaucracy all your life but you have never experienced anything like the Auroville bureaucracy. 

Yes, that is correct. Someone once joked that all Indian bureaucrats should learn how to play croquet, because in croquet you win by blocking the other guy, not by going ahead yourself. This is how many bureaucrats work. My impression is that the people in your major groups are playing croquet because they are obsessed with blocking someone else they do not like from doing something. In this sense, there is a lot of politics in Auroville, and this is a very undesirable development. 

What makes it worse here is there is a dislike of rules and regulations, so decisions are taken based on personal likes or dislikes.

What is the remedy?

There is a need for some basic and simple regulations. I have been pushing for it, proposing to start with very simple rules that apply to everybody.  You can modify them over the course of time but no deviations should be allowed for individual cases. But there is much resistance to this.

Perhaps because Mother said there should be no rules in Auroville. And when she chose people for Auroville she did not follow rules and regulations…

 Then why not let Mother choose today? I have proposed lotteries for membership in all the major groups. Just pull the names out of a hat and trust that She will see to it that the names of the right people are pulled out. Then don’t criticize whoever is chosen, let them do whatever they want.  It won’t be any worse than what is happening today!

You need to have faith and let go of your personal preferences. Another thing that needs to stop is all this criticism. I get on average 3-4 emails a day of people complaining about the behaviour of other people (I have stopped reading them). Try not to criticize. It will make a big difference because Auroville is here to help people rise, and this will come about only if you have faith together in that larger purpose. 

You once said that bureaucrats are taught to manage problems, not solve them. 

Yes, in my view that is our basic training.

But we see you as somebody who has been keen to solve problems. So have you stepped outside the role of the traditional bureaucrat? 

There are two major influences on any bureaucrat. One is the milieu in which he works. I worked for some time in the Tamil Nadu Government, but for most of my life I worked for the Haryana Government. The Tamil Nadu Government is more influenced by the British system of strict rules and regulations, but Haryana is different. There you are expected to find ways to get things done, and not to apply rules and regulations to block everything.  I learned a lot there.

The people you work with in the early years of your life also shape you a lot. I worked with an officer who is now the Chairman of the Minorities Commission of India. Not only was he very hard working but he also put in extra efforts to help anyone who was in distress or was disadvantaged. He has been a great influence on me. 

I always try to help people who come to me; my door is always open to everyone. 

Are there disadvantaged people in Auroville? Some people seem to feel we live in an unequal society where some people, for example, do not have equal access to influence and power.

 No, I don’t feel Auroville is an unequal society. If you see what is happening outside and compare it with what is happening here, you realize the difference. Here you always give people an opportunity. The problem is with people seeing membership of major groups as power positions. This perception is very strong now because as there are no defined rules, it is felt that being in the Working Committee or FAMC allows you to exercise power and authority. This leads to lobbying for positions in these groups.

That is why I say you should use a lottery to choose the people in these groups, because then nobody is dependent on their position upon special interest groups. And then every day you have to make them realize it is not a power position.

Regarding Matrimandir, over the years we’ve seen increasing pressure from outside parties to promote Matrimandir as a tourist attraction. Today there is a limited visiting arrangement. What do you see as the future?

I have a contrarian view on this. At present, you’re making the Matrimandir look so exclusive that all visitors feel they also have to get inside the Chamber. When I first came here in 1992, we stood in a long queue, went inside, saw the Chamber and came out. I strongly feel you should have some arrangement of that sort even today, for one hour or one and a half hours daily. Then the pressure of many people wanting to sit inside will disappear because about half the people who want to see inside have no interest in concentrating there. They are just curious because they’re not being allowed to go in and see the Chamber. 

Your present policy is creating bad PR for you. Ultimately, in the Indian system you cannot deny people access. Look how the Ashram handles it. The Ashram has no problem with thousands of visitors, the people on the job have good PR skills and consequently the Ashram has fantastically good public relations with everybody. 

Do you feel that the Residents Assembly is mature enough to run its own affairs without Government involvement? Are we ready to take up that responsibility?

You can be ready at any time. But as long as more and more residents of Auroville want to preserve their lifestyle rather than build a town for the future, you will not be able to run things on your own. You have to demonstrate in some way that you are serious about manifesting the City of the future.

There is a sense that some members of the community who are very competent are not putting themselves forward for responsible positions because, like you, they have become tired of breaking their heads on certain issues or of being criticized.  

But I am an outsider, I have come here for work so I may lose enthusiasm. But you who have given up so much to come here, how can you afford to lose your enthusiasm? How can you be apathetic about what is happening here? This is why I find it unacceptable when an Aurovilian tells me they do not want to get involved. This, precisely, is the problem. More people have to get more involved in the community and life of Auroville.

There is a new government in India, and the HRD ministry, under which Auroville falls, has a new minister. Will there be changes in the Governing Board and the IAC?

(Laughs) No, I don’t think so. I think only Aurovilians are getting excited by this prospect, nobody else is bothered.  I do not think it is a priority for the government.

What is the image of Auroville with government agencies?

People in government are not aware of what Auroville is all about. They know vaguely it is some kind of utopian community that is trying to do something. But they do not know it is intended to be a township of 50,000 people and that we have only 2300 people at present because there is no money for essential infrastructure. Recent interactions with people in the Central Government have begun to change this perception and this is a very positive thing.

But the relationship with the Tamil Nadu government has not developed?

It has not improved at all.

Why is that?

We feel we are under the Government of India, so we have developed a certain aloofness to the State government. Perhaps the State officials resent this. They would like Auroville to use local channels rather than going direct to the Centre.

No Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu has ever visited Auroville.

This is because you have never invited them in the correct manner. You have to invite them for some particular event, you cannot tell them please come to Auroville because it is such a wonderful place. The present Chief Minister is very busy and preoccupied, but if you organize an event in Chennai with Dr. Karan Singh’s presence, like a cultural performance by residents of Auroville at the Music Academy, I’m sure the Chief Minister may agree to come. 

In fact, it is important that you make friends at various levels. That is why you should be doing more events in Chennai so that people become aware of Auroville.

You say you have had a difficult second term in office. Have you lost a certain amount of enthusiasm for Auroville? 

I’m frustrated regarding certain things and I did not want to keep breaking my head on certain issues, but I have not lost my enthusiasm for Auroville. In fact, I don’t think there is any other place like this. Nowhere else in the world can you find so many talented people living together. And nowhere else in the world is there such a concentrated wish to do something better. 

You have bought land close to Auroville and are planning to build there and live there permanently. Will you be joining Auroville one day?

I don’t know, but frankly I don’t think I will join Auroville.

So we can’t propose you as a member of the next Working Committee!

(Laughs) If I join Auroville, and if my name is drawn in a lottery, I will take up any responsibility.

If you had a few words of advice for your successor what would they be?

The only thing that I would tell him or her is that this is a place where you have to learn to listen, rather than to speak your mind.